So a top ranking executive, Dan Cathy, at the fast food chain Chick-Fil-A said the following in an article in the Baptist Press
“We are very much supportive of the family — the biblical definition of the family unit. We are a family-owned business, a family-led business, and we are married to our first wives. We give God thanks for that.”
Some have opposed the company’s support of the traditional family. “Well, guilty as charged,” said Cathy when asked about the company’s position.
he was also quoted as saying
“We know that it might not be popular with everyone, but thank the Lord, we live in a country where we can share our values and operate on biblical principles,”
He has every right to voice his opinion, and to worship as he sees fit. But I do question his belief in running a company on biblical principles. I also wonder if he has actually read the bible. According to ChristianAnswers.net the Old Testament contains 23,214 verses, the New Testament contains 7,959 verses. Out of those 31,173 verses approx. six condemn homosexuals. Jesus Christ had nothing to say about homosexuals or homosexuality. Here is just one of the six damning versus.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 – “Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
So along with homosexuals…thieves, the greedy, drunkards, slanderers and swindlers are also doomed from entering the kingdom of God. Now if God is truly condemning “the greedy” to eternal damnation along with homosexuals that would certainly include a large portion of the population in any capitalistic economic system. And what is a swindler? Is it that essentially the same thing as a thief? Adulterers are also quite common and would include many well-known Christian leaders. And surprisingly the bible also only mentions homosexuality in men, not women.
I will give Chick-Fil-A credit for not opening their stores or doing business on Sunday as according to Christian tradition, Sunday is the Sabbath and working on the Sabbath is punishable by death in the bible. But how far does Chick-Fil-A take their biblical values?
Here are just a few restrictions and laws also included in the bible. Paraphrased for length.
Leviticus 19:19 – Don’t wear clothes made of more than one fabric
Leviticus 19:27 – Don’t cut your hair nor shave.
Leviticus 20:9 Any person who curseth his mother or father, must be killed.
Leviticus 20:10 If a man cheats on his wife, or vise versa, both the man and the woman must die.
Leviticus 21:17-18 People who have flat noses, or is blind or lame, cannot go to an altar of God
Leviticus 15:19-20 When a woman has a discharge of blood, which is her regular discharge from her body, she shall be in her impurity for seven days, and whoever touches her shall be unclean until evening
Leviticus 11 – Includes many dietary restrictions including unclean meat such as – pork, rabbit, camel, shellfish, birds of prey, bats, mice and various bird and lizard species
Deuteronomy 13:12-15 If you find out a city worships a different god, destroy the city and kill all of it’s inhabitants… even the animals.
Deuteronomy 17:2-7 Kill anyone with a different religion.
1 Corinthians 3:2 – You are not to combine milk with meat
So I would love to ask Mr. Cathy, if his employees all have beards and long hair? Does his company allow menstruating women to work? And what about the menu items that contain pork products and dairy combined with chicken. Are these not also abominations? Are the uniforms made of only one type of cloth and thread? Is it acceptable for an employee to murder a customer or fellow employee if that person is not a Christian? If an employee curses their parents are they put to death?
I don’t quite understand how many Christians who cite these six scant verses in the bible that condemn homosexuality conveniently ignore some of the more extreme laws. How is one verse the “WORD OF GOD” and another discarded as being out-of-date. Who decided what is relevant and what isn’t? It sure sounds nice to say that one lives by biblical laws, but no one really knows what those laws entail. Of course there is great wisdom and philosophy in the bible even for non-believers but the darker passages cannot just be ignored. Cherry-picking the bible and then using it condemn homosexuality while ignoring the other absurd and out-dated prohibitions is intellectually dishonest.
A religious person can and should live however they like as long as their behavior does not go against secular laws and does not harm others. But homophobia does harm, and results in harassment, bullying, suicides, loss of employment, and infringes upon the basic human rights of others. Some Christian conservatives are actively trying to force their religious beliefs into law in a secular society while most homosexuals are just trying to live their lives and not be treated like second class citizens. Gay men and women are not trying to limit the rights of heterosexuals, this is hardly an even or fair fight.
If Dan Cathy really wants to live according to the biblical tradition of the family and run his business according to biblical law then he should get to work and stop picking and choosing which laws he takes seriously. If Cathy wishes to run his company according biblical law, then at least we had better start seeing full beards and long hair on every employee. It might not be up to health code but it would be according to God’s will.
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The people who try and hide their hate and bigotry behind the hypocritical Bible fig leaf drive me nuts. Me, I thank god we live in a time when we can find out what these wealthy bigots do with their money and can choose to take our patronage elsewhere
Just because someone opposes gay marriage does not equal homophobia. Hate is based on emotions and emotions are based on a matter of opinion. Opinions that are concluded mostly from the outside looking in. Get to know what it is to be a Christian before you point out scriptures to judge them with. Taking them out of context does not make a very good judge. I know Christians are a lot of the time wrong but that is the human nature of everyone. Also know that a lot of people call themselves Christians but they are just not. The media is very good at pointing out the negatives and very seldom do they put anything Christian in a positive light. So to say Chick Fil A is a bad homophobic place just means you do not know the truth behind the man(Truett Cathy) or the place he came from. Unfortunately most people go with media and do not research to develop a true opinion based on facts.
For starters Dan Cathy made the comments and I quoted him directly from the source. Secondly I researched the bible quotes at length from the actual bible. I didn’t take them out of context they are direct quotes. In fact right after one of the abominations against homosexuality there is a declaration to kill those who work I. The Sabbath. So how is it one law is taken seriously and the other is discarded. It is not a question of context the two laws are both plainly stated and both in Leviticus so where is this context of which you speak. And lastly the company has given millions to anti-gay groups, so they are contributing to homophobia. Churches should have no say in a secular marriage. If any particular church does not wish to marry a same sex couple it should be their right. But a marriage recognized by the state which has no religious component should not be their concern. The separation of church and state actually protects the church from government intervention and influence.
I realize that you took the quotes straight from the bible but the old testament in not the new testament. A Christian falls in the the category of the new testament. So to live by the laws of Leviticus all though are good teachings they are not binding to the Christian. The Sabbath is Saturday. Sunday is a day of thanks and worship for Christians not a Sabbath. Sabbath was a day of rest what Christian have you seen restful going to church on Sunday? Have you seen a Christian do animal sacrifices? Christians do not have to become Jewish to be Christian. So there is a difference and the scriptures you are using are out of context when it comes the life of a Christian. If a Christian puts his eyes solely on God you will know it it will be the guy that you will love to be around long before you know he is a Christian. Truet is that kind of man. I realize you are quoting another person but he represents the view of the company that Truet started and if they were not like minded he would not be there. Churches are what this country was founded on they are of what the constitution was written. At the signing of the constitution most of the people who signed it were preachers. The separation of church and state has since been misconstrued. It was meant to keep the government out of church affairs not the other way around.The reason God was to be self evident was to state that he is a fact of being without cause to doubt. If you look at the history God and Christianity are what this whole country was founded on inside and out. Without it you would have no rights given to you to say otherwise. Homophobia is a fear of homosexuals. Anti gay movement does not mean they are afraid of them it means they support the original law the way it was written and has been. Marriage was defined by our forefathers for a reason. There has to be a moral standard. There were homosexual people back then as well and if they were meant to be included they would have been. This country did not come to be out of nothing there was a lot of thought put into things before it was made a law. I don’t think that most Christians care what homosexual people do marriage or not. I think they just want a moral definition to stay in place because history shows that it is not a good thing to lose sight of morals. As far as I feel homosexuals are friends of mine I love them I do not judge there faults because yes all sins are equal so the liar goes to hell just like the homosexual unless the have a relationship with God through Jesus. If they have that then they become as Jesus and are forgiven as though they have never sinned. No this does not mean it is okay to purposely go out and to kill, lie, or steal but if they truly have a relationship with God they will turn away from that and you will find they are less likely to do that stuff because of their love from God. Sadly the Christians you hear about most of the time or the ones you may know personally may in fact be Christians but they have no real relationship with God so in all honestly they act no different than anyone else. So that is like a Chevy with a Ford motor in it it looks like a Chevy but it runs like a Ford. All I am saying is you are a good writer and if you were to or if you could look at this from a Christian side you would discover as a whole it is about the love of the people not hate. That is what a Christian is supposed to represent (LOVE). The bible does say though the world will hate Christians for the sake of Jesus’ name and I see it everyday.
Well then why is there so much Cherry Picking? If a Christian can just ignore the majority of what you call Jewish laws in the Old Testament why are six verses saved for special discrimination against an entire group of people? This piece wasn’t about Truet, so why you are bringing him up makes no sense. Dan Cathy made the quotes, so I wrote about who actually made the quotes. The company itself has given millions to anti-gay groups. So even though you may think the company and the Cathy family are amazing people, gay Americans might not agree with you on that.
And what you fail to understand on the separation of church and state is so basic, but here you go. The founding fathers didn’t pick a religion and say this is the religion of the United States, nowhere in the Constitution does it say that, or in any of our founding documents. The freedom of religion is the FREEDOM to worship however one wants to worship, or NOT WORSHIP. The largest single church is Catholic in the United State, sure there might be more Protestants but they are all splintered into different groups. The single largest solid church is Catholic, so if we went by size the Catholics and the idea that churches should be a part of government, or shape government we then we should all be forced to adhere our civil laws to the will of our largest church and that would be Catholic. No religious group should be forcing anyone to adhere to their beliefs or follow their morals, if they could then a Baptist living in Utah might have to follow what the Mormons think is right, or a Methodist in Massachusetts might be forced to go to mass on Sunday. And just think of what could happen if the Church of Scientology ever gets really popular, I hope it falls apart, but it has grown by leaps and bounds since it was founded. Our first amendment, is fairly clear.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion…
How is that misunderstood. So they didn’t pick a church, on purpose.
As far as the history of this country and God and all of that, well I would completely disagree with you on this being a Christian nation. Many of our founding fathers were adamantly against religious influence in our government. Your quote regarding marriage as established by our forefathers.
There were homosexual people back then as well and if they were meant to be included they would have been.
Do you really want to go there? Women were fairly screwed over by our forefathers as were African Slaves. So should we go back to those times as well? Should women give up the right to vote? And should black Americans lose their citizenship and return to plantations? Based on your logic, if the forefathers didn’t address it…I know that is not what you are trying to say but honestly that is where the logic goes.
And gays are less likely to be gay if they turn to Jesus? Isn’t the success rate for those conversion programs dismal? Even the people who run the programs to turn gay people straight with the help of God admit they have horrible success rates. And WHY didn’t Jesus mention it? If this is so important to the church WHY didn’t he say one phrase on homosexuality? Why is there not one story in the gospels about a gay man? And why are gay women completely ignored? So is it alright to be a lesbian? Because the bible never mentions it. I was raised strict Catholic, and I have read the bible extensively, and although I have many friends who are Christian I really have hard time believing any of this as the word of God. I see so much hatred from so many Christians especially towards gays an it makes me sick. People are born gay, there are genetic components to homosexuality and to tell a gay teenager they are an abomination or sinning against God when they are just being who they were mean to be, is just so tragic. Many gay children are bullied or commit suicide because they are taunted and harassed based on those six scant versus in the bible. While the center of the entire faith, Jesus, remained completely silent on the issue. I just find that hard to support. Obviously Jesus didn’t have a problem with it, or he would have mentioned it. But then again Jesus was a fairly non-judgmental person I wish more of his followers followed his teachings and not just took a few passages from the older half of the bible and condemned and entire group of people.
You can’t just pull OT laws and say, “hey hypocrites, why don’t you follow these too?” You have to have a basic working knowledge of how Christianity views the OT as compared to the NT. The OT is under the old covenant, and Christians are not bound to follow those. In fact, Paul writes in the NT of how people condemn themselves by placing their hope of salvation in OT laws such as circumcision. You must have a deep understanding of Christian teachings on sexuality to get to the heart of the matter and not just pull verses out of context, as Michael rightly said above. I would suggest beginning with something such as Humanae Vitae by Pope Paul VI, which can be found online easily enough, I believe.
JESUS had nothing to say about homosexuality. I could have just printed that, I probably know the bible better than most Christians because I have read it at length. And my issue and I think I state it quite plainly is that a Christian cannot just take these six scant versus and condemn an entire group of people and ignore all of the other rather arcane restrictions. And again deep understand of Christian sexuality? Where are you getting that? The bible has a plethora of passages on sexuality and most are not very positive, especially the sexual behavior of many of the leaders in the Old Testament. I think you are confusing what you have heard from the pulpit, to what is actually in the text of the bible. And again, Jesus had nothing to say about homosexuality, or birth control or abortion. All of which existed during his time, so if these things were so important to him and his teachings, where are they in his most sacred work, why not even mention it once? He never does. And what context of working on the Sabbath? How if Homosexuality is a huge sin, are the Sabbath laws just completely ignored. Not only is working on the Sabbath explicitly prohibited more than once, keeping the Sabbath holy it is one of the 10 Commandments, yet most Christians completely ignore that one and while they might go to church, they will also work, shop and do all sorts of things the bible would condemn on the holiest of days.
I’m getting the deep understanding of Christian sexuality from the Catholic faith. The Bible plus 2000 years of tradition and understanding are at play here. I don’t go to a church with a “pulpit.” You don’t seem to understand the idea of faith here… faith isn’t something that is 100% spelled out in exact words. Jesus couldn’t have said every single thing that was sinful and spelled it out perfectly in the three-ish years he had teaching. We take much of what we believe on faith. Others can mock us for it, say that we should only believe what we can definitively prove… but faith doesn’t work that way. As a Catholic, I have tradition and the teaching authority of the Catholic Church to guide me. Much of society is very individualistic and thinks it is archaic to be part of a group like this, but I find great peace with it, knowing that I can look to the teaching authority of my Church because I alone don’t know everything there is to know.
The Catholic Church makes so much sense after you really learn and live the teachings. I guess you wouldn’t ever be able to really understand what i mean about the deep meaning of Christian sexuality because you’ve not lived it. As I said, reading Humanae Vitae would be a start. I can’t explain it all for you; many more intelligent people before me have already written a great deal of information on the subject. But not all Christians think sex is bad, evil, etc.
You speaking of “ignoring all the other arcane teachings” in the Bible, it still appears to me that you don’t get the Christian relationship between OT and NT and the old covenant and new covenant. Am I going to circumcise my baby boys? Of course not, because I’m not Jewish, and that is only a law under the old covenant. You really have to understand the relationship, not just read the Bible in its entirety for yourself. You have to have historical context and such.
I was actually raised in a strict Catholic household, went to Catholic school and up until I was a teenager attended mass every single Sunday. I became disillusioned by the corruption of our pastor long before I learned about the sexual abuse in my parish. The neighboring parish also had a child molesting priest, but lucky for his victims he admitted his crimes and served time and there was no drawn out trial. Unfortunately for the families in my parish, the priest fought the allegations and dragged everyone through a second hell, he was eventually convicted. The pain and anguish and the subsequent loss of faith this caused throughout my parish and community is enormous. I have long ago lost all respect for the institution of the Catholic church, in part because of these heinous crimes. So I will respectfully disagree with you on that faith. You have every right to believe want you want and worship as you see fit, and if you find solace in that faith then good for you. But there are many like myself who feel betrayed by its leadership, it is difficult myself and others like me to take the leadership seriously when the cover-up of abusing priests was so wide-spread. Just my opinion of course, but never assume that just because I criticize someone like Dan Cathy doesn’t mean I don’t know the bible, or anything about the Christian faith.
Christians often use the Old Testament to condemn homosexuals, so it is confusing when they quote Leviticus and then say…well since Jesus…none of laws in the OT apply. A simple google search on the topic and most anti-gay Christian websites are quoting Leviticus as well as Corinthians and Romans. So if they don’t think Leviticus or the arcane laws apply, then they should stop using them to condemn homosexuality. They should instead ONLY use laws in the New Testament, but they don’t they go ahead and throw in the Leviticus verses. It is extremely intellectually dishonest to do that, especially with laws as absurd as not wearing cloth made of two types of thread are right next to the condemnations on homosexuality. So either none of the laws in the OT apply or all of them apply…anti-gay proponents can’t have it both ways.
Two of the verses in the New Testament also lump homosexuals in with drunkards, adulterers, swindlers, and many other groups…but no one seems to be calling for a ban on drunkards getting married, or drunkards being doomed to hell….why is it in modern times the verse only seems to apply to gays.
And three years is actually quite a long time to preach, and Jesus said a lot in that time. If homosexuality was really that important a topic for Jesus he would have mentioned it, but he doesn’t. Much of what we know about the early church and its teachings were shaped by Paul. Paul’s teachings were written decades after the death of Christ, and even in Romans there is only one anti-gay passage. Again, since it is such a huge issue for most Christians it just seems odd. There is also quite a lot of debate regarding translations, especially since the earliest copies of the Gospels were written in ancient Greek and have been translated, copied and revised thousands of times. Any bible scholar would tell you there have been thousands of additions and edits to the bible since it was first put together, which was long after the death of Christ. Six verses out of 31,000 or so doesn’t seem to make up a huge portion of the bible, but the way anti-gay groups go on you would think it would be hundreds if not thousands of verses dedicated to the subject.
Faith is your faith, and if you believe in the Catholic church and everything it offers it is your constitutionally protected right. The problem arises when one religion decides to infringe upon the rights of a secular group of people. Same-sex marriage that is recognized by the state, should have no bearing on your religion or anyone’s religious beliefs, no one is forcing the Catholic church or any church to marry same-sex couples. Since the union is legal and secular and not religious the church should have no bearing on it whatsoever. The concept of marriage exists in all religions not just Christian, so the Christian bible should have no bearing on who is allowed to get married and who isn’t, especially in a secular society. Simply put you can’t force your religious beliefs onto someone else, just as they cannot and should not do the same to you.
Romans 1:24 Therefore God gave them over in the desires of their hearts to impurity, to dishonor their bodies among themselves. 25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie and worshiped and served the creation rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen. 26 For this reason God gave them over to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged the natural sexual relations for unnatural ones, 27 and likewise the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed in their passions for one another. Men committed shameless acts with men and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.
Timothy1:10 sexually immoral people, practicing homosexuals, kidnappers, liars, perjurers – in fact, for any who live contrary to sound teaching.
Jesus may not have said these words himself in red letters but they are of the new testament.
You may know the Bible by heart but still not know one thing about God. Faith in God comes by hearing his word not by reading.
Jesus gave Christians a new commandment. A very simple one. One that out ways all the others. If you follow that one you will get everything else right even if only by accident. It is to love others he has loved you.
You see Jesus did not say that he is the only way to heaven. He said no one comes to the Father but through Him. There is another way to heaven and that is to live without sin. The old testament tells you in detail how to live without sin. There is a problem though no carnal person can do that.
The moment you sin just once you are guilty of all sins. To God all sins are equal not one of them is anymore bad than the other. They all have the same punishment not matter if it is a white lie or murder.
Jesus therefore became sin; our sin; and God poured out all of his anger and wrath on him. Jesus was the last and the purest sacrifice that was ever made and he paid for all sin past present and future and he did it for everyone. He was sent to hell for three days and then he rose from the dead. He did all of this as man and not as God. Jesus showed us that sin is a choice and how to live sin free. He gave us the Holy Spirit to reside in us so that we have him with us always. So if he is in us we know how he loves us therefore we can love others in the same way.
I can say with certainty that if God loves and his enemy is out to kill, steal, and destroy then it is not of God to kill a baby by abortion. Any birth control that aborts a fetus, which is most of them, falls into that place as well. Anything that keeps the egg from meeting the sperm are acceptable because they do not terminate life. Yes life is that very moment in which the two become one. Would Jesus who now lives in Christians really need to teach on abortion if he has already taught the value he holds for each and every life?
As far as the Sabbath as Christians you are to take a day of rest but days are no longer considered holy, God is. If God is in us and he is rest and love among other great things and you can dwell with him all the time anytime why does just one day need to be holier than any other when now everyday can be holy. The purpose of Sunday is to worship and fellowship. Any business that is closed that day to allow it’s employees to have time for worship and fellowship actually do better financially than those of the same ilk that do not.
The whole thing that you are missing I think is that the old testament is how to live a carnal life with God and God being angry and having to punish sin. The new testament is about living a spiritual life with sin having been dealt with. So God can live in you and have a personal relationship with you. Christians are spiritual beings Jews are carnal. That is why there is no need to for anyone to judge Christians according to the ten commandments; BTW there are actually hundreds in the old testament not just ten. You see according to God all true Christians are exactly like Jesus and without sin. I am pretty sure Jesus was judged wrongly by the same ten commandments that you are holding out to judge Chick-Fil-A.
The main thing is if you can get to that point to look for God’s love and feel it you will drop all this and know exactly what Christians are talking about. Again though you have to have a spiritual break through to allow your heart to feel it. I hope you can get there because God really loves you. He has been talking to you a lot but you are not listening with your heart. Remember he has as still and quiet voice that can not be heard with your ears or with your carnal mind. Just your heart. Man he loves you I sure hope you get it soon. He thinks you are awesome.
God Bless!!!
There is a huge difference between something in the bible, and something Jesus said. Try as you might to put words into his mouth you can’t, he never spoke on homosexuality, not once, nor did he tell a story about homosexuals which seems rather odd if he indeed the center of this religion, that seems so hellbent on condemning homosexuality. How can one part be derided as Jewish or out of date the parts you want to include are the word of God? I am not yet convinced that you and the other critics of this blog are not cherry-picking what is convenient for your argument.
And for your one verse, then why aren’t we condemning the rest, where is the organized effort to admonish sexually immoral people, kidnappers, liars, perjurers…sexual immoral people could mean any number of things…and liars, that would include a LOT OF PEOPLE!
Your quote again “Faith in God comes by hearing his word not by reading.” well what the heck is that supposed to mean? So I have to sit in a church where some human interprets his or her spin on the bible and then reads it aloud? Or am I supposed to hear God’s voice in my head? That just doesn’t make sense, if the bible is the word of God then reading it should be enough. I shouldn’t have to have a human being interpret it for me. Most early Christians couldn’t read, so they had no choice but to go by the word of their preachers and priests. In fact the bible wasn’t even printed into anything but Latin for hundreds of years, although the original oldest copies of the Gospels were written in Ancient Greek. The Gospel stories don’t even tell the same events in the same time frame, but I would rather not open up that hornets nest right now.
And I know there are hundreds of commandments, but the church doesn’t really focus on them, they really just focus on the ten. There were so many crazy extreme versus I could have also included in this article but for space I just picked the shortest and most straight forward. The Old Testament is full of murder and destruction, many of which is on God’s command and by God’s hand. And there is no place in the bible where the term “personal relationship with God” is written. That is a fairly new American Christian concept.
And now you are just preaching. Good thing to know that is what you believe and all, but that is your personal faith…not mine. I don’t have a problem with your faith, you can practice however you want to practice. But homosexuals being married in a secular union does not interfere with your personal faith. No one is forcing your church to accept homosexuals or to marry homosexuals. Their marriages do not impede your right to practice your faith. So this is simply not a fair fight, homosexuals aren’t saying that people of your faith can’t get married. And homosexuals aren’t preaching in the streets that straight Christians are an abomination. Sure there might be some gay men and women who don’t like Christians, but there is no organized movement to infringe upon Christian rights. If a Christian wants to raise their child with their belief system no one is stopping them, they can even send them to a Christian school or home school them. A Christian might not like everything they see in the secular media, but many secularists would not like what they see on Christian media. Yet some Christians try to force others through legislation how to live. No one is pushing for legislation on how Christians should raise their children or preach their religion. That is the fundamental difference here. If you want to preach, teach and educate others about your faith and belief system go for it! But you don’t have the right to force others to live according to it.
Wow you are getting mad from a message that is of love. That is why you can’t get this. You look to prove the Bible wrong so God lets you. I am certainly not forcing anyone to believe what I believe. I believe what I believe because the Bible say if you seek God he will reveal himself to you. So he has. If you seek truth you will find it and so I have. I know from where you are you can not get this but I was there. I studied Wicca, new age, and other things even though I was brought up in a baptist church. I know what I am telling you is true and it does not hurt me for you to tell me otherwise. I am not a Baptist and honestly I have not been to church in years. I know what I know because I seek it I find it and you can read it all the words and never understand. Hearing is what Jesus said and I say you can read the word aloud, listen to someone else read it, or got to church. It makes all the difference in the world. I do know that Jesus taught and no one had a bible to carry with them or even go see for a long time. So the only way to get it was to hear it for most of history.
Personal relationship is a new term the old terms were seek him and he will dwell within you. It is kind of hard not to have a relationship with something within you. I talk to him and I feel his responses. If what I feel is not in that Bible I know it was not him.
Jesus did speak of sexual immorality which includes Homosexuality, adultery, Sodomy, ETC.
I am not mad, I am just blunt. I speak like a write which is very straight forward. Homosexuality is not a lifestyle choice, if it was then the converting seminars and classes would work. They don’t work, even the people who run these courses admit their success rate is dismal, no matter how hard they try a gay person usually stays gay no matter how much they pray to their God. And would God make people built to sin? I don’t think so.
Give me the quotes of Jesus saying homosexuality is a sin, directly from the bible…he never said it. And you can’t lump adultery in with homosexuality they aren’t the same thing, and if he condemned homosexuality the same as adultery then there is a huge section of our population that is in deep trouble, as adultery is quite common. Adultery is actually far more common than homosexuality. So I am waiting on those quotes, from the mouth of Jesus and the subject of Homosexuals…I am waiting…it will be a while because unless you are making them up, he didn’t say them. He didn’t speak cryptically in fact he spoke quite plainly, so where is it?
“Judge not lest you be judged” (Matthew 7:1).
“Do not take the mote from your brother’s eye until you have removed the beam from your own” (Matthew 7:3).
“Let the one without sin among you cast the first stone” (John 8:7).
“Love your neighbor as yourself” (Mark 12:31).
“I was naked and you clothed me, hungry and you gave me to eat… Inasmuch as you have done it unto one of these the least my brethren, you have done it onto me” (Matthew 25).
Just a little more here there is no evidence that pin points homosexuality as being anything more than a choice. There are people born with problems but ultimately sexual orientation is a choice. A person with sexual conflict can chose to have no sex no one says they have to be active. Either way it is easier to get people to identify with there struggle if they just say they had no choice. I can say with certainty I know of not babies that are sexual so you can’t say you are born one way or the other.
As far as reforming from homosexuality to heterosexuality I am sure it is 100% failure carnally but spiritually it is just the opposite. I have seen it. I myself went from smoking and drinking trying to quit time after time and failed each time. Then one day I got it and I have not even a desire for either in fact they repulse me and I used to love them so.
As far as why lesbian is not taught on it falls under unnatural sex and sexual immorality. That covers a lot why itemize?
There is a lot of hate in the world but a few do not represent the many. This world is hell bent and will show anything that makes good look bad. I mean I know people that do good all of their lives and never made the news. Let one thing they do look wrong and it will be all over the news. For example Chick-Fil-a.
Why I brought up Truett is because he is the owner of the company. Anyone that speaks for the company speaks as if they were for him. He hired them to do so. So if they said it it was the same as him having said it. If Truett did not agree the person would have been fired and Truett would have corrected this if it were an error. He is a man of integrity he stands by his company and his people.
As far as where he puts his money. He puts it where he thinks it will do the greater good for God. Anti Gay does not mean hate gay. If it is what you call anti gay look at what they do for the people. I bet they are not anti gay going out to kill or destroy gay people. I bet they are trying to teach then that there are better ways to live.What you see from the outside looking seems like hate but I am telling you they are full of love for people in general.
As far as history if you study the lives of our forefathers you will see that they were more for God and Christianity than any other.That include George Washington and Jefferson. The first book translated to our English in the new country was the Bible and it was then place in every school. Back then churches ran the prison system with more reformed than not. Either way this is something you have to look for history is taught differently now and you really have to look into each persons writings to understand how they thought. In those days they were running from the Catholic Church but felt that no one should be forced to believe only what the government said was right. So yeah they did not chose one religion but each colony had its own church pretty much before they had anything else. Who knew that one day there would be thousands of ways to be a Christian?
Human sexuality is not a choice. I wish it was but it is not, people are born gay and there is more and more evidence pointing in that direction. Again, if your own savior had nothing to say about this topic then why is it so important. Jesus had a lot to say, about a lot of things a lot of it being about the poor, sick and disadvantaged. He didn’t talk about this topic, it honestly shouldn’t be that big a part of the religion.
Smoking and drinking is not the same as being homosexual. That is not a very good analogy. I am a godless heathen but I don’t drink alcohol, do drugs or smoke…they are all completely separate things.
Dan Cathy said the words, so Dan Cathy is responsible for them. The company gives money to anti-gay groups so the company should take responsibility for that as well. That is fairly simple logic.
And actually the original founders of this country did try to pick one religion, the puritans fled England only to try to enforce it as the one true faith in this country, and they weren’t isolated in that movement. Which is part of the reason our Constitution explicitly states that Congress shall make no law establishing a religion. In order to have religious freedom, no one religion can be the official government sanctioned religion. No one is stopping any Christian from practicing Christianity how they personally want to practice it. Why then are some trying to force their religion in a secular situation. If you want to convert people do so without the use of government, no one is stopping Christian film makers, television producers, authors, writers, musicians etc. if you want to get your message out there, you have every right to do so. You don’t have a right to force a child of a Muslim, Jew, Atheist, Buddist or Hindu etc. to learn the bible in a public school and you don’t have the right to decide what the state deems morally acceptable such as gay marriage.
If they are not trying to limit Christians then why can no one pray in school. That was for anyone but it is now gone. If someone speaks against gay life style it is considered hate speech even if there was nothing hateful about it. Every place that the ten commandments is displayed it has been forced to be removed even though it is part of more than Christianity. If a group speaks out on anything publicly Christian it is put into a negative light but other religion can assemble in the streets without conflict. I mean to say that you are a christian instantly gets you hated by millions. Muslims are loved. Even though they hate America.
So the way it is if you admit to being a Christian you lose your free speech unless you talk about what is favorable to the public. You lose you right to assembly unless it is in a church. Freedom of expression is gone if you can’t pray wherever you want but they provide prayer rooms for Muslims? Seems kind of like somebody is pushing Christians to try to make them conform.
The homosexual issue is not big in the church it is big in the public eye and every time someone ask a Christian what they think the slander them can call it hate speech. So then it gets put out that the anti gay movement is about hate and it really is not. Get involved in one you will be able to see better inside than from the outside.
When you are an alcoholic it consumes your life and you become what ever that is that you were trying not to be. The same with drugs. Homosexuals are made from the environment they live in not born. I know too many that out right made the choice. I used to date some of the girls that made those decisions. They sure weren’t homosexual when I knew them. Roise Odonnel said she decided she was gay one day while she was out driving her car. Ellen Degeneress witness he lover go straight. You can’t be born gay and suddenly one day not be unless you were not born that way to begin with. I may tan but I will never be Asian or Mexican because I was born white. I wish I could though. I love their cultures.
Either way you have your mind made up. Keep looking for God though and you will find him.
If you lived in an area where the dominant religion was Islam, I bet you wouldn’t want your children to sit through a time of prayer in school. That is why there is no prayer in public schools, the dominant religion shouldn’t trump the others simply because it is the religion of the majority. Now, if you send your kids to a Christian school pray all you want! No religion should be pushed with tax payer money, none, nothing, absolutely no religion should be promoted using public funds.
No one is stopping Christians from preaching or from praying, there are several Christian based radio stations, television networks, bookstores, magazines, newspapers, websites etc. There is no concerted effort to suppress any of it. The only suppression comes when the religious message is combined with the secular government, in order for our government to protect all religious freedom, it can’t pick one religion and promote it. Even the words “In God We Trust” were only added in the 1950’s as was the words “under God” to the pledge of allegiance. Both were a reaction to the Godless Communist movement.
And there is a fundamental difference between freedom of speech and infringing upon someone’s rights. You can say whatever you want, but when you force people through laws to adopt your beliefs is when you go too far. No one is forcing a Christian to go shopping on Sunday, no one is forcing a Christian to say a Muslim prayer in school.
And your sentence about Ellen Degeneres doesn’t even make sense. Ellen Degeneress witness he lover go straight? What? Did you mean she wishes her lover was straight? Or are you talking about that crazy woman Anne Hache who has been married a bunch of times, thought she was an alien and was caught wandering the desert, because well every group has its crazy people. Ted Haggard is hardly a model Christian…and there are so many more.
We could do this all day but your carnal mind and not understand a spiritual God. So your quotes of the Bible does not mean the same to me as they do you. The Judging quotes tell you how to judge righteously not to not judge. Jesus taught on old testament law so yes it was defined previously and he did not itemize when he talked about sexual immorality because those who knew anything about what he was talking about knew it was predefined them in old books. That is all they had at the time.
If Jesus was God in the flesh he already defined everything for what it was because he said it in the old testament.
It does say than man was born into a fallen world and we are bent towards sin. Sin is the nature of the carnal man in this world. So yes until you know you are a sinner you can not, not sin. That is why you need a savior to save you from your sinful self.
We could go about this all day you know but we are not going to get to the same belief. Simply because you do not want to believe that the bible is true until you get there you can not even begin to see things for what they are.
I am just taking them at face value as they are written in the bible. According to the laws we aren’t supposed to cut our hair or beards, there is no emotion attached it says it fairly simply. You are bending reality to get words into the mouth of Jesus that aren’t there. And again, did Jesus believe in animal sacrifice and all of the other more carnal things in the Old Testament? Because if you are going to suddenly put the OT into his teachings then do it, all of it. He never once uttered the word Homosexual. You can’t find it because he never said it. It is really that simple.
Your quote.
Simply because you do not want to believe that the bible is true until you get there you can not even begin to see things for what they are.
No, because I think the bible is full of extremely contradictory things. I also think it is full of commandments and laws that make absolutely no sense. And this has never been about me or my personal beliefs. I just take issue when anyone tries to FORCE their belief system in a public setting. I can repeat and repeat and repeat myself many times here but no one is forcing through legislation Christians to do anything against their faith. A same-sex marriage does not infringe upon someone else’s beliefs, a Christian may not agree with it, or like it but it is a secular legal union that does not affect their religion. If a Christian doesn’t wish to recognize a same-sex marriage in the confines of their church it is their right to do so.
Thanks for the debate though I have to go I will check back later if you would like to continue this. I assume that is the reason you have a blog is to work things out. Just so you know I am not trying to offend you and you are not offending me. It is nice to have an opposing view to bounce off of it strengthens me. I was once right where you are though. God Bless.
This is not personal you are free to believe whatever you want, however you want to believe it. You can raise your children according to those beliefs, I just don’t think you should be able to change secular law to push those beliefs. It really is that simple and our constitution backs that up, and that is why when this issue is brought to our court system the same-sex marriage advocates tend to win out. It is not activist judges, just judges adhering to the constitution which has a fairly strong barrier between church and state written into it.
It’s very easy for a Christian or any religious person to cherry pick certain verses from their religious text and completely ignore others.
I think I am going to pick out all of the really extreme ones and base a religion on that. I kid, I kid, but seriously…why not?
If you’re going to do something, may as well not half-ass it.
I’m sorry but out of all of that back and forth, I can not believe “The Judging quotes tell you how to judge righteously not to not judge” was written. Wow. Jesus would be ashamed of you. That is the devil, Sir, perpetuating your hate.
I was not of age in 1967 but I wonder how long it took people like you to change their views on interracial marriage before they stopped trying to spew untrue Bible speak? Interracial marriage was also called an abomination by Toxic Christians, like you, and may I remind you… Interracial love is a choice, same as same-sex love. Funny how antiquated that sound now but 20 years from now, your grandchildren will be as ashamed of you as I am of those toxic Christians that have used Jesus to oppress others in history.
Wow Sara that sounds like you are judging me…
Everyone judges so that is why it says if you are going to judge take out the log from your eye before you look to judge someone else. You see if you did not judge how could you decide on who your friends are? Who is to be your spouse? Who you are going to vote for? If you did not judge fairly your life would end up kind of lonely or full of people that you can not stand. So instead you get to know or learn about people then decide who is the best fit for you in your life.
Interracial marriages are not a problem n the bible. There is only a requirement of being equally yolked. That had been interpreted as race unfortunately but since there is only one race, the human race, that can not stand.
I could never have a problem with race. I have date ;before I met my wife; women of many cultures and colors. I was the only white person in many of my classes in my school days. So I hate no one if you knew me you would know that.
I am called white but I come from Scottish, Irish, and Cherokee and pretty much so is my wife.
I do agree with you though there are toxic Christians.
The Bible does not have a problem with same sex love but it does have a problem with same sex,sex. You can love someone of the same sex but you do not have to have sex with them it says that is unnatural. The the Bible specifically says unnatural sex is an abomination. To be more blunt Sodomy is unnatural and it is not to be done to a man or a woman. There are other unnatural sex acts but I won’t bother with those right now.
Thanks for caring though.
The bible says all sorts of things…some of which are completely absurd. My point was that you can’t take six verses of a text that has been translated and copied countless times and condemn a whole slew of people…while ignoring thousands of other crazy laws and abominations that most modern Christians would agree are out of date and no longer relevant.
Jesus never said a word about it. I can just keep retyping that but again…Jesus didn’t mention it. It appears in the New Testament along with lumping gays with adulterers, greedy people, swindlers, and on and on. Nowhere in the bible does Jesus Christ turn to his apostles and say…homosexuals are sinning against God…homosexuals are evil. You can’t assume he did, and you can’t assume he went by every law in the Old Testament, in fact he didn’t.
Jesus had a lot of good to say, and I say this as a non-believer. So if you are really going to follow his words, then you should follow HIS words, and not all of these other books that also include how to properly slaughter an animal for sacrifice, or the best way to discipline your slaves. Or you have to take all of the laws seriously, and not just the ones you judge to be relevant.
Michael, Toxic Christian did quote the Bible, as you do, to condemn interracial marriage. Study your history. It has only been 46 years, so it’s hilarious how some Christians try to snuff this part of their hurtful history out. Just as they try to forget that Hitler quoted the Bible quite often in his speeches and believed he was doing the Lord’s bidding in his mission to rid the world of Jews and homosexuals. Just as they spurted out verses from the Bible to contend that slavery was a right from God before the Civil War. Now you join the ranks as a group of people in history that try to use the Bible as a weapon of hate and hurtfulness
Sara I never said that any didn’t condemn interracial marriages I am certainly not one of them. Moses married an Ethiopian and God was okay with him.
I know the hate that man is capable of.
I just think it is funny for you to quote thou shall not judge incorrectly and then place your judgment on me. I am in no way among the ranks of Hitler or anyone else of the ilk. I love God and he loves me that is I I need to worry about.
I do not know you enough to value your opinion. I love all people even those that are my enemy. I just feel sad for the lost because one day God will condemn them to hell. I can not stop them but I so wish I could.
Now if you would stop trying to condemn me because my opinion is different from yours. You do not know me and obviously you are offended and for that I am sorry but if you do not accept the Bible to be true then I can not help you.
I will leave you with this:
1 Corinthians 2 9-16 (New International Version)
9 However, as it is written:
“What no eye has seen,
what no ear has heard,
and what no human mind has conceived”[b]—
the things God has prepared for those who love him—
10 these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit.
The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11 For who knows a person’s thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12 What we have received is not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may understand what God has freely given us. 13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words.[c] 14 The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. 15 The person with the Spirit makes judgments about all things, but such a person is not subject to merely human judgments, 16 for,
“Who has known the mind of the Lord
so as to instruct him?”[d]
But we have the mind of Christ.
julietjeske Why; if you do not believe in the Bible or in God for that matter; does it matter to you what Jesus said? Being that you are not a Christian why do you think that you can pull a few scriptures out and say that this person is wrong? If you are not a Christian I do not think you are qualified to determine how to live as one just because you read the Bible. If you read the Bible trying to believe it you would see it in a different light but since you are not the same scriptures apply to you. 1 Corinthians 2 9-16
I think you are completely missing my point. If Christians truly follow Christ, I would think his words would be most important, not laws that are right next to “how to properly kill an animal sacrifice” in an ancient text. I just find the whole thing rather absurd. I mean if were whole chapters about homosexuality I would get your point of view better but there are six out of 30,000 versus and of those six they are spread out in different books and also condemn nearly everyone else, adulterers, greedy people, swindlers…etc. So I just don’t understand how these six scant versus are so important when the savior himself didn’t mention them. He also didn’t really talk much about most of the other arcane laws. He did say we aren’t supposed to judge each other repeatedly and that we should help the poor, he also said a few things about the wealthy that aren’t very flattering. So I think there is a lot of wisdom in his teaching and I am baffled by how some Christians bend and twist his teachings to condemn people…but they do. What Would Jesus Do? I think he showed us when he didn’t condemn gays, and he didn’t. And again homosexuals aren’t actively trying to take away your rights or the rights of anyone. Interestingly enough I did take classes in the Torah and most Reform Jews look at all of the ancient laws as out-dated and no longer relevant, and it was their book before it was Christian. Now there are different types of Jews, but 90% of the Jews in the US are Reform, and Reform Jews are extremely liberal in regards to gays and they don’t even keep kosher. So if it is their ONLY book and they don’t take the old fashioned laws seriously why would Christians? Doesn’t make any sense to me.
Either way Christians are to live as Christ and Paul was an example after Jesus. I just don’t understand if people are entitled to their own views why do people put hate into a difference of opinion. I mean wanting marriage to be define the same way it has been through most of history does not mean they hate anyone. It just means people are not ready for change.
People label groups as anti gay but these groups were created to give homosexuals a way out because they wanted a way out. No one forces them to attend counseling for it they just go to try to see if it will help. So out of love these places were created as a service. There is also an anti gay movement not so much to hate gays but to keep the old ways as they have been again because people are not ready for change.
Also it is completely natural to assume that once a person decides to identify themselves as homosexual that they have decided to put God out of there life. It is well known that if someone approaches them about God the pretty much get defensive and most homosexuals hate Christians no matter how they are approached. I know my cousin does but hey he is my cousin I got to love him.
Counseling doesn’t help, the convert you back to heterosexuality groups don’t work either even the people who run those programs admit they have a low success rate. And again they just want to get married in a SECULAR union, not in your church or in any church. Same-sex marriage is a legal union, not a religious one. No one is trying to force your church or any church to marry people of the same sex. In fact any marriage has to have a legal marriage certificate issued by the state, not just the ceremony in the church.
And there are a lot of religious gay people, there are even gay clergy so that is just not accurate. Just google religious clergy or gay friendly churches and you find a lot is out there. Some Christian denominations are quite welcoming of gays and even have ministers who are gay themselves.
I agree that they may not work I am just saying how they got started. I know there are gay people in the church and I know that gay marriage is about legal union.
What I am saying is that American as a whole is barely over racism. We have finally voted our first black president in, This gay marriage thing started in my life time. I am sure ultimately it will come to pass. I am just saying that I am not sure America is ready to accept it as a whole. If they were it would not be a fight. It takes time for a whole nation to change it’s view and I am not sure it has been long enough. The church is changing too you will begin to see more people walk like Christ did and more people will want to be apart of it.
I feel it is kind of like while I was in the Army. At that time there were a lot of old soldiers in that wanted it to be the way it always had been. That is to say don’t think just do. When my groups came in we were thinkers not doers. Now what you see a thinking Army and most of the old timers have retired. The Army runs more efficiently now. Great technologies have come from this new thinking Army.
Give American time and things will change. You will see. Just in the mean time try to look at people with differences of opinion as afraid of change. Not haters. It did not mater about race or sexual preference on 9/11 that is the true America at it’s heart. The ones that came from all over to help people not hate them.
You are cracking me up, Michael. Do you know how to read Hebrew? It is written from right to left with no punctuation. I’m assuming you read the King James version of the Bible since it is the most popular. Have you read about this man you put so much faith into? He was not great. He commissioned 7 COMPANIES (Not notable men of the cloth) to translate this watered down version of the BIble that you then use to hate monger. The reason we are becoming a more Godless nation is because His Living Word is no longer read by the masses. You are reading 47 men’s ideal of what the Bible was about. Not the real thing.
Whatever… I just posted in the new international version. I read many different translations. While I have taken Hebrew classes I can not call myself a fluent reader ;that takes years; but given time I can can get through it. No matter what translation you look at it says pretty much the same thing with very little variation. There are some variations though some are clearer than others to us today. Some newer translations leave out complete passages because they believe parts are redundant. I like Strong’s Concordance and I usually have a couple of different Bible dictionaries that I refer to. If all else fails there are software programs that show you in the original Greek and Hebrew and how they translate to today’s language. Sounds like you doubt validity of the Bible as well. That is one reason we are becoming a Godless nation people doubt too much. Oh well to each their own. God Bless.
God Forbid we are critical thinkers, and the pun is intended. The majority of the world’s population isn’t Christian, in fact 60% of the world’s population is Asian. If you think God is punishing us for losing faith in him, then look at some of the countries that have the strongest belief in God and then look how well those countries are doing. There should be a correlation but there isn’t. El Salvador is one that comes to mind, as it has some of the most restrictive anti-abortion laws on the books. Women actually die from pregnancy complications because doctors are so afraid of intervening as they could be cited for aborting a fetus, so both the fetus and the woman die as a result. The vast majority of El Salvador’s population is Catholic. Yet El Salvador is one of the poorest countries in this hemisphere, poverty and crime are rampant and it is hit with earthquakes, mudslides and hurricanes on top of it. So is God mad at El Salvador? Or could it be that El Salvador just happens to be in a tough part of the world for natural disasters and none of it has to do with God’s judgment on its people. There are also countries in Africa that have rampant poverty, death, disease and large populations of Christians. Is God punishing them? I don’t think so.
People reject the faith that they were raised in for a number of reasons. For me it was the corruption in my faith (Catholic) and further study of the bible-which actually made me question more than it gave me solace. I also find the suffering on the planet to be difficult to explain while also accepting a loving a caring God. Especially in areas with Christian populations such as Africa. Science also explains some of the mysteries that were thought to be supernatural and we now know are caused by real physical earthly things – such as natural disasters. Then there is the study of genetics and evolution. And the more I learned about other religions and other faiths the more I saw that there is some truth in all of them, and corruption and hypocrisy as well. I am not alone in my beliefs on this. It is not just that agnostics and atheists are arrogant and don’t wish to submit to an all knowing deity…there is a lot more to it than that. And I wish that I could see a correlation between religious belief and strength of character but I haven’t seen that at all. Some religious people are extremely ethical and moral people and others are the complete opposite and I can say the same for people of all beliefs and for non-believers. If your faith helps you and strengthens you then great, but don’t force it on people who don’t happen to believe in the same faith through secular laws. Invite them to your church, write your own blog, preach on the street corner, no one is stopping you.
In the over 400 translations of the Bible into English, there are quite numerous variations.. this is why more and more translations were commissioned throughout history… homosexual wasn’t even a word when the Bible was written and top Hebrew translators even differ greatly on the translation of the one word you have considered to mean “unnatural” and “abomination”. So, yes, I do doubt the validity of these muddy-down English version Bibles that were translated by secular people. I trust, untranslated, old doctrine. Would you be confident in a new translation of the Bible commissioned by Obama? Would you follow it? Twenty generations from now they would know as much about Obama as you do about John Wycliff, the original translator of the Bible into English (of which most current English versions have built up upon) or King James.
Sara you must be old wise and rich.
You are saying that you have read 400 translations of the Bible and know Hebrew well enough to read it without punctuation which could take years and even decades to master unless you were born a Jew. In which case you would have been taught it since birth and it would still take some twenty years to master. Then on top of that you seem to have a complete first century set of scrolls.That at best have been found in fragments but even those fragments line up with the KJV.
All of this I am say with sarcasm because if you took one year to read the Bible through it would take 400 years to do it and if you read four in a year that would still take 100 years. All of that while taking notes and marking errors. That is quite a task for one person. Even for a speed reader.
On top of this you have spent decades to learn Hebrew so well that you can read it without punctuation which is hard for even some of the Rabbis that do it daily. Come on. You are making it way to hard to believe in God.
If God is real he has no trouble getting truth to a person even in the loosest of translations. I mean He is God the one that created the world.
It is just not that hard to understand God or his word. Especially when he gets in you through the Holy Spirit.
Be real. The only way you can discredit that many translations is to take another persons view and assume they are telling the truth.
More power to you though believe what you want. You are taking the long hard road to get to God and he is standing right in front of you the whole time.
hmmm that seems to be one of your problems, doesn’t it? You do not read what is actually written. You just blow hot air like you have a direct line to God all while coming off pompous, not prophetic. I never once said I read 400 translations, I have merely studied the most popular translations. I believe before you tell people they are going to Hell you should try to understand what you are talking about. My uncle is a Hebrew translator so I have grown up with it my whole life, not that I have to prove myself to someone as ill-informed as you. You sound like a loud mouth sheep who regurgitates what youve been told your whole life. I hope you can realize one day that you are no better than these sinners you peach about. You are a simple hipocrite. Nothing more. But God Bless and Thanks for pretending to care 🙂
Sara I live with God in my life daily. Just because you do not agree does not make me wrong,evil, or hateful. It just means our opinions differ.
As far as me knowing what I am talking about I do. I have lived it. I do have a direct line with God. He lives in me. The Holy Spirit guides me not my carnal mind. I know that I am not misinformed. Too much happens in my life to the contrary of what you think I am.
I do not need your approval to live daily with God in my life.
Once God is in you, you are free from all of these translations because you have him to guide you. You will figure it out one day. You will see that you can not be right on everything. It is not in the human ability to understand God or the Bible It is of spiritual discernment.
You obviously think I value your opinion about me but I don’t. I only care about what God and my family think. Mostly God. So you can insult me until you turn blue and it is of no effect on me.
The only reason a person can get mad is of ones own pride and expectations of others. I do not know you so I have no expectations of you. You seem to be offended; so to me you value what I think about you.
I just think you are a woman that is less than half my age that has a lot of college and is trying to use her degree in psychology to intimidate people that you feel are inferior to you. I am not one of those people.
I have lived in Christ most of my life and I have been in the military during war as to defend your right to hate. I have children your age.
I am not saying I am the wisest person that ever lived but I have lived long enough to know when someone is trying to out think me because they think they can read me. You are so far off the mark on me. Years ago when I drank a lot you might have been right in your assessment but not anymore. The classes I had in psychology tell me you are angry and hurt but I know I am not the one that caused this in you.
I respect what you know about the Bible but for my 40+ years of living in it and going to many different denominations of churches I know God is not that narrow minded to only have his word to be know by a very few that can read the Hebrew texts. He loves us way too much to let only a few million know his word out of billions.
If it makes you feel better to read the translations you do then do it. I am not judging you. I just know by the fruit of that you are throwing at me is not out of the love of God. Judge me all you want. God can only be found in love and I sure don’t feel any love from you.
Hey guys this is just a quick note for both of you, I have to approve comments because I have had problems with crazy people in the past and so comments don’t automatically show up, I have to screen them first. So if you notice a delay in your comment, it is just because I haven’t gotten a chance to approve it. I am not censoring you, I only do that when people get really nasty with each other and neither of you are doing that. So if it takes a few hours for anything to show up…it is just because I haven’t had a chance to “approve” the comment, and when I am out on my phone it takes a minute. 🙂
That’s funny… You don’t care about my opinion but you looked up my information on Facebook?
Michael, I actual appreciate your faith. I wish a lot more people in this world had it (though without the convert hate you have lace through it). What I do not appreciate is that you feel like you can downplay the faith of others by writing paragraph upon paragraph on how morally superior you are than others. They do not need your pity. You can can write until your death of your religious and military credentials but you are a sinner just as I and are no better in the eyes of God.
There is no way not to judge, as you previously pointed out, but I do not believe that is what the quote julietj used is remotely trying to say. That is the point though. You can make the Bible say anything you want to prove your point. You can use a passage to try to demean me and I can find a completely different meaning in the same words. Thus this debate! You are allowed this opinion but so are the people voicing against your hate. I do think it is becoming a (institutionalized and religious based) hate vs. (frustrated) hate debate but hopefully this hate from both sides will dissipate when the law becomes on the right side of history and same sex couples don’t feel like their personal safety is threatened as soon as they walk out the door.
There will most likely be a day when you are 80+ with the only people that will listen to you being your fellow Straight Supremacists, talking about the good old days when you could talk down to those homosexuals without being considered a bigot. You say marriage has been defined throughout history as man and woman and why change history… People of African decent have been taken as slaves throughout history, not just in American history, but dating as far back as the Bible… And you and I both agree that was not right. Yet it is condoned in the Bible. Why do you ignore that? Just because you were born into this generation where it was already acceptable to not put people into slavery and where interracial marriage was already legal and becoming accepted when you were born. Your counterparts a generation before would have led you to believe that God had kept races separate and you would have taken that pill too. They are the ones that changed their mind and said oh but I guess we ignored the part where Moses married an Ethiopian. You are seeing this from fresh eyes as a child born after Anti-miscegenation were struck down. This will be the same for generations born after DOMA is repealed.
Marriage in the Bible also allowed for men to have concubines and forced women to marry their rapist… Is that also the traditional definition of marriage that you believe? The only thing I out of this whole debate I would love to know your answer to is why do you ignore these parts of the Bible but focus on others in condemning groups of people. Do you not find every word of equal importance? Do you think a woman should be forced to marry her rapist or be treated as property? I’m pretty sure you do not. Why don’t you condone slavery if it is acceptable, in any form, in the Bible? Would you voice your support for someone trying to have a slave in this day and age even if you fundamentally disagree with it? Please do not pick apart 2 or 3 sentences I have written here and ignore this point. Why do you not follow every word of the Bible as your translation reads?
Hey guys this is just a quick note for both of you, I have to approve comments because I have had problems with crazy people in the past and so comments don’t automatically show up, I have to screen them first. So if you notice a delay in your comment, it is just because I haven’t gotten a chance to approve it. I am not censoring you, I only do that when people get really nasty with each other and neither of you are doing that. So if it takes a few hours for anything to show up…it is just because I haven’t had a chance to “approve” the comment, and when I am out on my phone it takes a minute. 🙂
Why do you not follow every word of the Bible as your translation reads?
Because as a Christian I was released from the law and given Jesus who fulfilled the law. Not that I should go out and break the law but through the love of Christ I can walk easier knowing that I could never live the law perfectly but still be seen as Christ to Father God. This called the grace of God. It is why I have peace in my heart. Every sin has the punishment of death and in today’s society if I followed those laws I would most likely got to jail for murder. Besides God put Jesus on the cross to die for all sins.
If there would be anything that could offend me in what you say it is that you insist that I am a hater. I have been hated ever since I became saved so it is nothing new to me. I know that you do not believe my point of view but that is okay. It has taken me a large part of my life receiving new revelations from God to get here. Until about ten years ago I tried to live under the Jewish law as a Christian and then I realized it is legalistic and does not allow you to feel Gods love. Under the law you focus on living the law not God. Once I received that revelation from God I have had peace ever since.
Roman 7:6
New Living Translation
But now we have been released from the law, for we died to it and are no longer captive to its power. Now we can serve God, not in the old way of obeying the letter of the law, but in the new way of living in the Spirit.
I never said I hated homosexuals I just don’t at this time feel like America is ready for such a big step in this area. I do however believe that everyone has a right to cover anyone they want with insurance they pay for. Like I should be able to pay for health care for my best friend if I want without being his brother or family member. I do believe that is where this whole idea of homosexual marriage came from. To me that should mean we are making laws to change insurance carriers not change the definition of marriage.
You can look at my FB and see that I do not hate homosexuals because there sure are a lot of them that are on my friends list. They never condemn me for my opinion on this matter. What they do in private is of no consequence to me. I personally think I should not know what they do in private because I do not share what I do in private with them. You used to could know people without having to know their sex life. That is just not so anymore.
I hope this is the answer you are looking to understand about me because of ten to fifteen translations I had to chose from they all said fairly much the same thing when it came to Romans 7:6. If you have a better translation of it I am willing to read it. If I am wrong I am willing to have my eyes open with scripture. I am always ready to learn more.
Amazing post.
Even on the other side of the Atlantic, I followed this story when it was breaking, and I don’t think I saw anything take apart the hypocrisy of choosing which bible verses to follow as clinically as you have.
To quote a different part of the bible, Jesus says “Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.”
Regardless of his feelings on homosexuality, Cathy should, as a Christian, be motivated by a desire to see those he loves be happy.
(I had to look up that quote, but would hope that any self-described Christian would memorise the jist of it!)
I am a Christian,also a Str8spouse.enjoyed your articles about them,posted to my fb.however,I take exception to this one.tthe 1 Corinthian passage you refer to here is really about how Christians take in the word of God.We should be past ‘milk drinking’ stage as a small child as we grow and feed on ‘meat’ of Gods word,but many people never move forward.
I can’t really explain why God gave all those commandments to the Hebrews.I have read that the Jews of Hitlers time were often kept alive by the rules of cleaning,kept many from disease.
I do know that Jesus Himself said the greatest law is LOVE,fellow human being LOVE
I am glad that we are both Str8spouses,and that you have explained many of my feelings I couldn’t explain myself
Thank yu for putting them into understandable words ,
Cindy LeSieur
The Corinthian passage has been interpreted many different ways, so that’s your opinion, I’ve heard many others. You could look through this thread there is a whole biblical discussion going on between like three people, they go back and forth on a number of things.
As far as the Jews of Hitler keeping clean in a concentration camp, well they were prisoners they didn’t really have any rights, if a guard wanted to kill them they were dead. So I don’t think it had anything to do with kosher laws, what happened to them was tragic. Some 6 million of them died, so again I don’t think the kosher laws kept them safe at all. They did have lower incidents of the plague during medieval times, and that may or may not have had to do with their strict kosher laws regarding food and cleanliness. No one really knows for sure, as they might have also had some sort of genetic built in immunity.
I’m not a religious person in the slightest and I make no apologizes for it. According to the forth different accounts of his life, Jesus Christ never said anything about homosexuality, not a single word. So I’ll just leave it at that.