New York City (Photo credit: kaysha)
This is the earlier version of a post that I submitted to the Huffington Post. So it might seem familiar to you if you read the shorter more streamlined version. I just wanted to point that out in case anyone was confused. Basically after I wrote this one, and got overwhelmingly positive feedback from it I was encouraged to submit to HuffPo. Although I have posted in the comedy section before the divorce editor did not know me from Adam, and I didn’t even know if they would publish me much less feature me. So to any bloggers out there who want more traffic and a larger audience, just do what I did, and you might get lucky. I love how the internet has a level of democratization to it. You don’t have to go to an expensive Ivy league school or know the right people…anyone can self-publish! So do it! I had to cut this post in half, as the Huffington Post suggests 500-800 words, this was something like 1600. 🙂
It seems since I left my husband I have been unable to do a number of things, I won’t list them all here, but the most frustrating lost skill is the ability to date. That is, date anyone for any significant length of time. Admittedly it is a bit of a problem because I am out of practice as I was with my husband for a total of nine years. And after nine years together in a committed relationship I have extreme difficulty navigating the nuanced dance that is dating. One can not be too direct, overly eager, needy, desperate, clingy, emotional, commitment pressuring, or baby daddy seeking. And at the same time not be too cold, aloof, bitchy, mean, shallow, negative or distant. And never shit talk an ex in front of anyone, or even talk about an ex in any capacity, even if the past nine years of your life was living and working with him!!!! Then there are the crazy games of when to text, email or call, when not to get back to a person and when to answer immediately, when to act interested and disinterested and when to completely blow them off in the hopes that they will come running back after you have ignored them a while. The last tactic being one I absolutely loathe as it goes against everything about me. As a person who is by nature very direct and to the point, dating is a mystery wrapped in an enigma to me.
I am also straight edge in that I don’t drink alcohol often and I do absolutely no drugs. Now mind you I hang out with a bunch of artistic types so this can really make life difficult for me, as the majority of my friends use at least one if not more substances on a regular basis. I am not judging anyone, and I have no problem with my friends that are regular pot users or heavy drinkers. I am perfectly comfortable for the most part hanging with my friends, but it can make me a less than attractive partner in some eyes because of my drug and alcohol-free lifestyle. Add to that my vegetarian diet of over 20 years and my two cats, and for some that is just too many deal breakers to handle for many men.
But the most distressing behavior that I really can’t justify or figure out in New York is the casual sex hook up mating habits that I frankly have no desire to engage in. Yes, I know I get on stage and joke and tell a blue streak of obscenities and adult themed humor, but in my personal life I am a committed relationship type of gal. I make no illusions to being anything but this, and I do not judge others for their behavior. If a poly amorous life of multiple lovers works for a person, then I say go for it. Or if a string of emotionally detached one-night stands with perfect strangers is what makes a person happy then great. But I know there are others like me that aren’t wired this way, and seek something more substantial and with some level of greater commitment both emotionally and sexually. I have a myriad of friends who complain all the time
“I am not slutty enough for this city”.
And I can relate.
I have made failed attempts at living a Sex in the City style life of hooking up with partners for something casual, and every time I have tried it the results have been disastrous. I either am disgusted by the man, or the man won’t stop calling. I had one man who kept calling me for months afterward, another who rudely told me about his other women, and yes there is a polite way to handle this, and yet another who had what I would call a mild breakdown in my apartment about how he couldn’t handle the “gray area”. So I realized, I am not this person, I need to be true to myself so I went back to my serious relationship commitment roots. But no matter how much I keep trying to go for a traditional path, the hook-up scenario keeps rearing its ugly head.
Just the other night an attractive man was coming on to me HARD. He was so obnoxious and obvious about it that a bunch of my friends noticed and even some of his friends were trying to set us up. But I had never met this man in my life and to be quite honest his overly aggressive approach was off-putting. He was also over a decade younger than me and was a bit of a jock. Not exactly the brainy nerdy guys that I normally find much more compelling. I like a man who can intellectually stimulate me, plus pretty boy jocks tend to get women easily, and as I always say….
He who gets the pussy easily, does not treat the pussy well.
And that tends to be true. So I was mildly deflecting his advances when a much younger and age appropriate woman arrived on the scene. Eventually Mr. Meathead instantly moved on to her, I had no idea if she knew the show he was putting on in front of me or how aggressive he had been. Would it have mattered to her? I doubt it. She was young, she hadn’t learned some basics about men yet. That any guy who is that attractive and that aggressive towards women is not what you would call relationship material. And maybe to her credit that wasn’t what she was looking for anyway. I couldn’t care less. I knew I wasn’t going to sleep with him or do anything else with him that evening so if she wanted the pretty boy jock she could have him. And part of my ego was stroked anyway in that he approached me first, and I was 16 years her senior. So for bragging rights, at least I have that! She went up to him. He went up to me! I have to take what I can get! HA! The same girl was chatting up another male friend of mine earlier in the night. So much so that I thought they might be dating. Little did I know, it seemed she may have been looking for whatever was the best option available that evening. Or maybe she just met her future husband last night. I don’t really care. Whatever works for her!!
I find this all the time when dating. It is just sort of expected by many that you start the physical part of the relationship first, and then see if either partner wants to continue after you have had sex. Sort of a try before you buy situation. Sex before emotional attachment, sex before any form of relationship, sex before everything. Or what I like to call how to be treated like something in between a booty call and a girlfriend. And as a person who doesn’t like being treated poorly, these setups are not usually to my liking.
- The guy will call or text when he wants to hookup but that is about it.
- You are supposed to be on call to wait for the opportunity and then run to see him
- Don’t reveal too much about yourself, but listen to him complain about his trials and tribulations
- Don’t expect commitment, or exclusivity
- Don’t expect any emotional bonding
- Don’t expect much effort on his part to impress you, or make you feel like you are important in his life.
Not exactly what I call fun, but again everyone is different and for some people this situation is ideal. What I find frustrating is that if you really want to get to know a guy first before having sex with him, it seems like there is no end to the women who will jump into bed with them. And this isn’t to say that only men do this, as women engage in the same behavior. But I didn’t think that in order to try to have a healthy sustained relationship with a person I am supposed to have sex with them hours or even minutes after meeting them. It seems more like long-term relationship suicide. Sure the sexual relationship might be great at first, but sex doesn’t really hold much together as far as compatibility in concerned. Sex is usually the mortar between the bricks but the bricks have to line up or the whole thing collapses.
I know there a plenty of men and women who are frustrated like myself out there. I hear it all the time from my friends, sometimes they think the fast life of hookups and one-night stands, friends-with-benefits, or fuck-buddies is working for them. But they soon grow tired of it and want something steady with one person. But what are we supposed to do when everyone around us seems to be whoring it up? If a guy can so easily get no-strings attached sex, and then never see the woman again if he chooses, then why would they try for anything else? And when a man is tired of the hook-ups himself, how does he then make the transition to getting to know a woman when he has been hooking-up for years? Of course the same goes for women, and people of all sexual orientations and persuasions. When do you decide to stop and settle down? And when you do settle down, then what?
And in the online dating field, I will occasionally get a man from out-of-town send me an email announcing he will be in New York city in a couple of weeks and would love to “have coffee” with me. As if “having coffee” has turned into the ultimate euphemism for anonymous sex with a stranger. Funny how drinking a hot caffeinated beverage is somehow the equivalent of sex with no strings. Again I am sure some women will go for it, but what kind of women? How likely are they to look like their actual photo? Or not be a total psycho? Or not be a scam artist? I bet some men have tried these arrangements only to wake up in a strange hotel room hours later missing their computer, their wallet and anything else of value.
Is it survival of the sluttiest? I have friends that are in committed relationships and seem happy and most of them didn’t meet by having sex with total strangers. There are no real rules with relationships and sometimes sleeping with a someone you barely know leads to years of coupled bliss. This city doesn’t make things easy and I have trust issues on top of everything due to my divorce. I ask myself this question almost daily…
Do I have to change who I fundamentally am as a person in order to survive the dating scene in New York city?
I keep answering, no, but I am not so sure how much longer I can live like this.
Related articles
- Dating in New York: Sexless and the City (julietjeske.wordpress.com)
- Slut Walk NYC: I is real feminist now? (indelibility.wordpress.com)
- My Thoughts On Dating In Toronto Guestblog By bradd80 (thesoloist1.wordpress.com)
Follow me on Twitter https://twitter.com/JulietJeske
Add me on Facebook Juliet Jeske Facebook Fan Page
yes.
Even though the judgmental way that this comes off bothered me (saying “whatever people want to do is fine” over and over isn’t very believable if you’re saying it in the middle of telling people that they suck and are ruining your life), I know how you feel. Even though I’m a guy, I have actually had the same problem for the last several months: every woman I dated jumped into bed with me on the first date and then didn’t want to see me again, even though I was looking for a relationship (and if you’re the guy, there is the added problem that if the girl wants to hook up and you say no, you get rejected for being “too nice,” whereas if a woman says no the guy will just keep trying). I asked tons of people for advice, got tons of different advice, tried it all, and none of it mattered.
Then recently I met someone I really like and it was magically fine. I didn’t do anything differently, and nothing was noticeably different in her “strategy” either. It was just magically fine. One day this will just happen, you won’t be able to explain it, and that’s it. A thousand people can write a thousand articles about how NYC is too this or too that or what kind of game you need to have, but the truth is, nothing makes any sense until you just wake up one day and it does, for absolutely no reason.
So before you attack me for something I didn’t do. When do I say people suck? WHEN? And when do I say that anyone is ruining my life? If anyone ruined my life that would be my ex-husband and I never mentioned him here. HA! And even in your own words, I REPEATEDLY say that if a poly amorous lifestyle works for a person then great. I know it doesn’t work for me, and that wasn’t really the POINT of this post so why would I expound any further on this topic. A poly amorous lifestyle is a mystery to me, if someone wants to blog about the joys of that lifestyle they are free to, but why should I? Also if jumping into bed with your current lover worked out great for you, then good for you. I think I even include that very scenario in this post. As for judgmental, well it is my opinion and I am entitled to it. And I think I start this post with, whenever anyone has an opinion someone is there to disagree. But I am hardly condemning other people on here, or telling anyone how to live their life. I just know for my experiences and that of many of my friends the gray area between girlfriend and booty call can be miserable. I refuse to go there anymore, as do many of my friends. But if another girl wants to keep three guys going on rotation with no man claiming her and her claiming no man, then all power to her. It is just not for me. And I get frustrated when it seems the majority of situations I am put in, in this city I am expected to act like a character out of a movie and sleep with as many men as possible and as soon as possible, rather than get to know them first and then see what happens. That is my perspective.
I’m a guy who has lived in nyc for 15 years. I moved here a a teen and am now in my early 30’s. I have to say, I am having the same problem for the same reasons you are. When I was younger, had less wisdom and prosperity, there were less women available, and lots of competition with older guys and of course all the unemployed “bad boy” manchild actors and artists etc….that apparently nyc women absolutely adhore. Anyhow, now I find it very difficult to stay in a committed relationship when there is so much easy no strings attached sex that women in this city provide for men. Hell, I have friends in there 30’s who are unemployed, iving in squaler or are completely dysfunctional (but charming) and they constantly are sleeping with different women each time I see them. My good friend is a doctor and she is dating a 38 year old guy who still lives with 3 grown men as roomates. I am a relationship guy, but I can tell you, when times get tough its easy to look around at all the casual sex and freedom that my friends have and I ask myself whether I should really be in a relationship in this city. I’d imagine a lot of other men feel the same way. Relationships are wonderful but can be hard work and so if a man has a constant supply of commitment free sex then why get into a relationship unless he is absolutely ready? Sex sused to be the lure women could use to get a man to know her better through months of courting. Now women just throw it out there. And even worse, men do not value women who have slept around a lot, so theb you have these women who have been “having fun” for years in nyc and are now in denial about the fact that they must compete with nice family orientated women that are not put off by aman’s sexual rxperience. So, whatever yu do, don’t fall into that trap, becuase the more men you have sex with, the less desirable you will be for a man that wants an relationship. I believe we are seeing the “unintended” consequences” of sex positive feminism. I don’t think the feminists really thought out how men would respond a new society where the most desired men are all empowered with commitment free sex by all the so-called “liberated” women. The availibilty of sex for single men in this society (nyc in particualr) has completely changed the rules of the game. Women gave up all their power in this regard and now men get to choose and women have to chase. I long for a simpler society where women regulate the sex and force us to identify sex with commitment. Until then, men will continue to struggle with commitment when there is so much sex available. And the 3 date rule for having sex? If that is considered conservative by nyc women, theb lol, why would a man ever want to commit? I mean….3 dates is nothing!
I am not sure if pro-sex feminism is entirely to blame for all of this, as I think people have been far more slutty than popular culture would like us to believe. Infidelity and premarital sex have been around since humans have been around. I definitely think things are more out in the open now, and people are less ashamed if not downright proud of their promiscuity. That being said, I think there is a lot of truth in your statement. This is still the United States, and our culture has been extremely influenced by our puritan roots. I feel overall that men do negatively judge women they view as “easy”. Not in every case of course and not every man, but generally speaking I think its true, as I have heard so many comments from so many men over the years regarding this. They might sleep with a sluttier woman, but they probably won’t respect her in the morning. The Madonna/Whore complex is alive and well. It does take all kinds though, and I do know some men that prefer sexually experienced poly amorous gals. I just think we have sort of made it half way with sexual liberation in that women are allowed to be sexually aggressive but they tend to pay a price for it. I just so frustrated because sometimes I feel like if you want to avoid being alone then you are expected to just sleep with people you barely know. And if you want to let something develop over time…you tend to just be alone. Although what does give me hope is that at least in my personal experience, when I take my time to get to know a person, then the actual relationships I have are better and tend to last longer. And since I usually make men work for “it” by the time they get it, they are usually more prone to want a commitment. But I hate making blanket statements about everyone. That has just been from my personal experience.
Juliet,
In this post of yours, you’ve managed to really articulate exactly how I feel. I believe myself to be “..very direct and to the point..” -your whole second paragraph is just so on point. I don’t think I’m walking around looking for a partner. In fact, I feel I might be a bit commitment phobic. I still want all the things you’re talking about though. So, am I a walking contradiction? I think so haha. I’m also 26:) So, kind of young.
I appreciate reading this. It’s a good message. I’m definitely a sucker for a pretty boy, but intelligence and charm will ALWAYS win. Now, if we can just combine good looks, intelligence, kindness, charm, a sense of humor, and a splash of James Dean bad boy…damn. 😉
Juliet,
I found your blog because of your Travelocity gripe (I had the same one). I’ve enjoyed reading all your thoughts about “Sex and the City” in NYC. I always wondered if it was really like that there. I dated until I was 38 (in Boston and Boulder, CO), but never had that kind of instant sex experience, sometimes girls I dated were surprised that I didn’t hit on them on the first date, but that wasn’t what I was looking for. I’m sure that kind of scene is heavy in NYC, but I’m wondering how much you should blame NYC. I’ve met people out here (Bouder) who have had some of the same experiences and they had to realize it was due to how they were meeting people. Sorry if that sounds like advice.
Anyway you write beautifully and you have beautiful eyes and if I weren’t married, too old, and living else where I’d ask you out for coffee and I would mean just coffee.
– Art
That is funny that you say that because, I started this blog to improve my writing skills. I never felt confident as a writer I was always better at things like chemistry and the like. I always felt a bit clumsy as a writer. But proving that if you just do something enough, you tend to get better at it.
Dating in New York is really it’s own thing. I think because of lifestyles and oddly the density of this city it is like no other place in the country. NYC tends to attract work-a-holic types and then it is so expensive to live here. So people work crazy hours and with what little free time they have they tend to go a little crazy. They also have a tendency to avoid commitment, true of both genders, as they are all married to their jobs. Then there isn’t as much a stigma to this type of behavior as their might be in other parts of the country. So due to these habits the city is hook-up central, and for the more traditional types like myself it can be a very isolating place. I know I am not alone as I have met many men and women who are of the same mind set. I was married for seven years so I don’t remotely understand this lifestyle. And at age 38, things are even weirder as many men in my age group are either, not the commitment type, broken from a divorce or so socially awkward there is a reason why they are single. And of course the majority of guys near my age are married, so it is really hard. But I am learning, I have a somewhat strange relationship with a man that has slowly grown over months. We are both fairly scarred by divorce so it has moved at a glacial pace and I even gave up on him more than once, but now I actually think it might be going somewhere. I have just learned that Dating in my late thirties is just different, at least if I am looking for something of substance which I am. So I have to be more patient with a potential suitor and cut them more slack, it is not easy.
As far as the Travelocity thing was concerned, they tried to dispute my disputed charge and it went back on my credit card. I called a second time, explained the whole thing again and my credit card agreed with me, took off the charge and then had to scrap that number and issue a new card to me in order to make it stick. It is such a bad practice for Travelocity to do, because I know I would NEVER use their service again, it is such a scam, I am sure I missed some box at the bottom of the screen to “un-check” and that is how I got charged. Total predatory practice! Hideous!
Have fun in Boulder! And thanks for reading!
Hey look, it’s o.k. for you to feel dejected and hopeless, but with it being that you’re posting an article in a very public forum; and you may even be getting paid to do so; you should be more careful about how you express your opinions in words. Frankly, all I got from this article is that you’ve attempted using tactics that you became uncomfortable with, so now what you’ve done is negatively written about the ladies of NY city and call them all sluts. Only because you were unsuccessful at being a proper slut yourself. What you need to start doing is “Stop over valuing your own pussy!” This is the environment that women have helped make when they’ve chosen to reject and ruin the heart of an otherwise “Good Man”. Then other women, just like yourself, are now out and about trying to find them. That’s fine too. But don’t call an entire city, a city of sluts; and not recognize or accept the fact that you make up a part of that city and its female population! I can’t believe the editors allowed you to even post this crap. But now to address another misconception that you have about first date sex; I am a man who, if everything is perfect and the mutual attraction is strong, perspectives and expectations are made clear; I can grow to love a woman that I have sex with on the first date, more quickly than I can with a woman that stalls the intimacy as a result of a false display of morality and virtue. One thing I know, if a woman is horn-ey enough she will screw practically anything available because she knows that she doesn’t have to stay with it or want the man afterwards; while on the other hand, she will intentionally stall a promising date so as to not be seen as easy or (using your words) “a slut”. You can start by not being so slutty mouthed and exercise true virtue and stop behaving like the typical woman that you now despise. Sorry to have to come at you this harshly, but you need to hear this! Write me sometime! 🙂
If you really are so passionate, instead of putting some confusing rant on the comment section of a blog, start your own blog, submit your own articles to the Huffington Post or other news sources. Very few people actually read the comments section, so your effort was mostly wasted. And you really shouldn’t scold a total stranger for using the term slut when you use the term pussy! If you disagree with my arguments great, but there is no reason to get personal and make wild assumptions about me, or claim I wrote things I didn’t write. Again I implore you to use this energy in a more proactive way and start your own blog, and submit all over the internet. My submission was my first attempt at getting my writing out to a larger audience, and it has been wildly successful, there is room for every viewpoint, so go for it. But very few people are going to see it here. Trust me, I can tell what is getting read and very few people read the comments.
Ok sweetheart, I guess I need to make this one thing perfectly clear to you; and that is, this wasn’t meant for anyone to read other than you. I know that this post is not made public unless you desire for it to be. But the only reason I used the word “pussy” is because you stated,
[“and as I always say….He who gets the pussy easily, does not treat the pussy well. And that tends to be true.”]
So I don’t mean to discourage your writing endeavors at all, please do keep it up. But for me to encourage you to continue in them, I must point these things out to you for your own good, with regard to writing in the future. Because if my mother was living in NY, single and dating, you would have called her a slut as well; and I don’t agree with that. Even as I really don’t think that you’re a slut either! So I hope that you’ve gained something from this little exchange, and that you continue to write down your thoughts. But always remember, that there are absolute colors, but there are also areas of gray as well. GOOD LUCK WITH YOU BLOG! and don’t take these things personally, 🙂 xoxo
Pingback: Reading Roundup: blog-surfing and random news – verdant4ever
Heya i am for the primary time here. I came across this board and I in finding It truly useful & it helped me out much. I am hoping to give something again and aid others like you aided me.
Where are these women who “give it up” at the drop of a hat? I’ve yet to experience this
Pingback: Weinergate: Can We get Real about Slut Shaming? | julietjeske
Pingback: Dating in NYC: A Typical Night Out | julietjeske
Pingback: Dating After Divorce: Sometimes I feel like a Panda Bear | julietjeske
Pingback: Yes I live with two cats…you have a problem with that? | julietjeske
Pingback: Dating After Divorce: Mr. or Ms. Angry | julietjeske
Pingback: How did you not know? – The worst thing to ask a Straight Spouse | julietjeske
Pingback: The Myth of the Magic Vagina | julietjeske
Pingback: Dating in NYC: Top 10 Tips for Dating Multiple People | julietjeske
Pingback: Dating in NYC: The Honest Sinner vs. The Phony Saint | julietjeske
Pingback: Dating in New York City – The Death of Dating & Emotional Zombies | JulietJeskeblog.com
Pingback: Dating in New York City: The Rat Race Redefined. | JulietJeskeblog.com
Pingback: Dating After Divorce: Mr. My Bitch Ex-Wife | JulietJeskeblog.com
Pingback: Dating After Divorce: I like you…but you’re not HER. | JulietJeskeblog.com
Pingback: When Love Poetry, a Sex Shop and Bloggers meet for Lunch | JulietJeskeblog.com
Pingback: Top 10 reasons why Being Single on Valentine’s Day is the Greatest! | JulietJeskeblog.com
Pingback: Top 10 reasons why Being Single on Valentine’s Day is the Greatest! | JulietJeskeblog.com
Why r u in that shithole Manhattan move to the outer boroughs
Well King of NYC I actually live in Brooklyn. There’s not much of a difference.
The author makes her own living. I’m not going to publish your comment. Just thought I would let you know.
Pingback: What I’ve learned as I enter the Disney Villainess stage of my life… | JulietJeskeblog.com
Pingback: Dating After Divorce: On Turning Feral… | JulietJeskeblog.com
Pingback: Dating in NYC – The Dreaded Ghost | JulietJeskeblog.com
Pingback: NYC Dating – To the men of NYC – I’m just not that into you. | JulietJeskeblog.com
Pingback: Top 10 Rules for Dating in New York City – If you’re completely over it and don’t give a shit anymore. | JulietJeskeblog.com
It’s so very true. I have an open relationship with my husband (I hope I’m not judged for being Polyamorous), and he tells me stories about how the women in our city are. I told him I would feel more comfortable with him seeing other people other than myself if we lived out of state because the women here in the city (I am originally from the Bronx, but lived down south from a preteen up until I was 18…. I am in my late 30s, he is in his early 40s). The way I see women throwing themselves at my husband, and the main reason is because they are trying to trade sex for being taken care of financially disgusts me. And it’s not just a couple or even a few out of the bunch, it’s EVERY woman out there here in the city. They’re very slutty and lack morals. I don’t want my husband with someone that’s already been with everybody by the time they’re in their early 20s. Ugh. Just the thought of him dating anyone in this city turns my stomach. I mean, even at his job, he tells me the supervisor and even some of the women, whom are on welfare, their boyfriends are in prison, getting ready to get out, and all of that mess…. NYC women are trash. Just throw the whole damn city away!!! I swing both ways but I have NOT dated any women in this city, and I don’t plan to date anyone from NYC at all. The girls probably have loose beef curtains in their jeans. Ugh